"Britains Got Talent"

topic posted Wed, May 28, 2008 - 4:42 PM by  offlineDevi
posted by:
Devi
Oregon
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Thu, May 29, 2008 - 12:11 AM
    I have a different focus for bellydancing. But I would hesitate to force it on others. Everybody may have a different reason for bellydancing. She is nineteen, she is brave enough to go out and show her stuff to the whole of Britain, and she is quite cute. She's quite a show in a pretty way so no wonder she was successful. I think that's all that matters to the judges who don't really seem to know about the culture of bellydance. They would be rather bored if a middle-aged woman would dance beautiful subtle Egyptian style to an Oum-Khaltoum classic, I guess.
    • Em
      Em
      offline 21

      Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Thu, May 29, 2008 - 2:16 AM
      I think she could be good fi she got some good training - she's got lots of potential and the reasons he got picked is cos she's sexy - thats kind of obvious. SHe's got the cute factor going for her too. I like though the way the judges seemed to claim to know what they were watching. Ridiuclous!!
      I think its good to get bellydance in the public eye though here in the UK as its needed. But shame it couldnt' be someone who was really really good.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Thu, May 29, 2008 - 9:26 AM
    i like her. i don't much like the music.
    i like that belly dance has been getting more and more attention, but i do fear that the larger culture wouldn't be interested in it if it isn't sexed up, but that is the case with most things so it's not entirely unfair. (that is mostly in the reaction to the judge's reactions)
    it would have been nice if they'd appeared to have done some research by her second performance.
    anyway, a lot of fun. i think when a bellydancer went on the American version Simon tore her up, but it might just have been the way the commercial was edited that made me think that. so it's great for her that they liked it.
    kudos lady!
    • Em
      Em
      offline 21

      Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Fri, May 30, 2008 - 6:20 AM
      I'd not seen the second performance - simon saying 'she wants to make bellydance popular' - well, superstars are already doing a good job of that. and if it means people thinking that bellydance is close to titillating stripping (which i have no problem with btw but i don't think bellydance should be portrayed as a stag night thrill) then its very sad.
      Ah well.
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Fri, May 30, 2008 - 3:44 PM
        see, i had never heard of the BDSS until quite a while after i had been dancing. maybe because i am usually very out of it, maybe because they would never come to a little place like syracuse. (we get comedians once in a while.... and the Tran Siberian Orchestra.... ) the people i had heard of were Veena and Neena, and i think it's because they play into the idea of what a belly dancer should be. (take a look at them on who's line is it anyway) i don't think the popular culture is being unfair to bellydance, it never wants to change it's stereotypes, and it seems like for anything to be worth it's time, it has to be sexy, but i think that to bring awareness of how it really is, the BDSS are doing a better job because they go the route of a theatrical performance, which is more likely to be respected as art, even if not as many people know about it- where appealing to a popular tvshow, like -country-'s got talent, or dancing with the stars, or anything like that: well, they're not going to be interested in you if your not hot. But even though the BDSS is more likely to get a more accurate image out, i feel like it's a little limited in who it would reach.
        just how i see it right now. it seems like the best thing is to have fun, and interact with the audience-when you do- in a way that commands respect. i think that might be the best way to get to the people who have the wrong idea.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Fri, May 30, 2008 - 3:02 PM
    I feel a little bit weird about these videos... I think the girl is very cute and charismatic, but well, I think she needs to work more on her isolations, she's got potential but she needs to improve - no offence but that's just my opinion, and I perfectly understand that I might sound a little bit mean, but it's not the case, really. :o)

    And also I do not feel very comfortable with this kind of "over sexy" dance because a lot of people already misunderstand bellydance, and this looks like a little too much "night club" for my taste. I don't think she's vulgar though.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Sat, May 31, 2008 - 6:16 AM
    I agree with the other posters here that while it may be a good idea to bring bellydancing into mainstream acceptance, I worry that performances like these from young women with seemingly little training will encourage the idea that bd is just another form of erotic dance.

    I very rarely comment negatively on any dancer, but she put herself out there. I was hardly impressed with her dancing, and I am usually easily impressed. I found her dance to be a bit sloppy, in that her isolations werent clean and sharp. I think that her enthusiasm is a strong asst, and with some training she could actually be very good. I am just disappointed that she made it on national UK television when there are SOOOO many bellydancers our there with better technique...
    • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Sat, May 31, 2008 - 9:40 AM
      I have been shown practically exactly the same kind of TV show in a German version on youtube clips by my friend. And my feeling is, these shows serve to promote just about every stereotype men have ever created about women. The idea is to audition in front of two self infatuated tv hounds and one sophisticated lady working in the same channel, and if the candidate is lucky, he/she is called back for another audition with a chance to apply for a "tv superstar" job. The male moderators use this opportunity to tell young curvaceous starry eyed girls that they are cute and sexy, and no, intelligence is not what is required as one of the talents praised here, and the rest of the time they use it to bash every woman who is older than 27, plumper than whatever their idea is of what a girl should be, take the chance to sneer, belittle and ridicule, put down some of male Turkish applicants as complete idiots even if they are good singers and usually give the youngest bimbos another chance by whatever random criteria.
      Well, what do you expect...>= ( I find it sad and it would make our feminist precessors turn over in their graves (if they were there already). Ever watched the movies "Carmen" or "Tango" by Carlos Saura? Always the same plot: middle aged director tells the seasoned, technically excellent head dancer and teacher of his troupe that she can no longer have the main role in the next show because he has taken a liking to a new girl. Ok, the new one only has 3 months experience in stage dancing, is not a real professional yet, but she is young and cute and refreshing, (and makes him feel more of a man again after he lost it a bit at his age, but he does not tell her that, and he ends up in bed with her later ). So, girls, being good at it is not really what counts, in the eyes of these men, and we all know which part of their body they use for thinking...
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Sat, May 31, 2008 - 3:30 PM
        hehehe, that reminded me of something a guy i knew said to another guy on our tech crew: "I know God gave men two heads and only enough blood to think with one at a time, but try to use the one on you shoulders" (Gabe Petrocci)
        let's not forget that the woman judge called her "sex on legs"
        • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

          Sat, May 31, 2008 - 7:51 PM
          I know! She called her "sex on legs" and the girl beamed and took that as a huge compliment. : P
          Well, maybe better than what Freud said about women:"Men are human beings with genitals attached, women are ovaries with a human being attached." I don't think, any woman ever regarded that one as a compliment, but on TV anything is possible. Can you imagine how much time the moderators spent on practising all that drooling and ogling at the rehearsals before they got filmed ? The guys are probably gay anyway, go have another look...; )
          Trust me, I have worked in a tv studio a couple of times.
          • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

            Sat, May 31, 2008 - 8:50 PM
            well.... (in my opinion) Freud was a dumb a-- coo-coo. i'm a little biased because IF i had been treated for my ocd with freudian methods, i probably would have died- as it was starving me and those treatments make it worse.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Sat, May 31, 2008 - 9:00 PM
    I kept waiting for her to do something "wow".. I would watch and think... heck there are oh so many better dancers out there.. why her?
    there has been several belly dancers try out for the American version and they never make it to TV... wonder why?
    • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Tue, June 3, 2008 - 8:43 AM
      Here are more belly dancers from Britains Got Talent.

      The Urban Gypsies
      www.youtube.com/watch
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Tue, June 3, 2008 - 9:44 AM
        Why, oh, why?

        What each of those acts have in common is that they need someone to provide decent choreographies and to wrangle in roving body parts--the overenthusiastic hips in the first one and the overenthusiastic bosoms in the second.
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Tue, June 3, 2008 - 11:05 AM
        i like their message ^_^ (even if i'm young and fit for now.... well.... scratch the fit part ^_~)
        i think their are great for a troupe that wants to have fun, just maybe is at the wrong venue for them in that clip ^_^
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Tue, June 3, 2008 - 11:14 AM
        Wow, that's a lot of bouncing tribal belly dancer bosoms. Oh, dear.

        I saw the clip of the younger dancer posted on another tribe, here's what they had to say:

        tribes.tribe.net/raks-shar...685e726583

        I pretty much concur. Both acts seem to have sex as the main take away from belly dance. While sex and sensuality are certainly part of the dance, there's much more to it than that. Poise, grace, coordination...

        Sigh.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:03 PM
    that's funny lol
    wow if everyone is so amazed at her dancing, imagine if they saw someone that actually knew what they were doing! she's too jumpy and her facial expressions kind of kill it too.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Mon, June 9, 2008 - 8:02 PM
    sorry to bring this back, but i ran across this today: www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/fea...7.jp
    • Em
      Em
      offline 21

      Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Tue, June 10, 2008 - 4:27 AM
      Thats really interesting - I loved her energy - but I don't see how the way she danced would have shown bellydance in a non sleazy light. I know she wasn't sleazy -b ut she was very sexy. I hope she does well though - Someone said she was going to perform at raqs britannia?
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Tue, June 10, 2008 - 4:48 AM
        I don't understand why they picture her as "scantily clad", seeing today's standards - f.e. how videoclip hip hop dancers often dress. Are there never any hip-hop girls that go in hotpants or navel-free in that show?
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Tue, June 10, 2008 - 4:51 AM
        I mean and she can't pretend she wants to show that it was a dance "only for women" when performing in a TV-show in front of mostly male judges.
        • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

          Tue, June 10, 2008 - 8:17 AM
          you have a point, Nuria. Of course her whole performance is artificially sexed up by all this additional hype going on around her ( topless muscular young men dancing around her, gulping judges speechlessly staring, gawking giggling comedians in the background and so on) but, yes, she defintely does not look like a "woman dancing for women" to me either. She is not even pretty but she does put on this exaggerated hoochie coochie act which does not really do true bellydancers a favour.
          On the other hand, this is a popular tv show so they just cater to what the general British public wants to see, and most of them could not care less whether this is authentic bellydance or not, I am sure.
        • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

          Tue, June 10, 2008 - 8:21 AM
          ok, first things first, bellydance IS sexy. no matter how you look at it. well, i definitely think it is.
          but i don't think it's sleazy unless it's really badly done. i've seen some really terrible dancers and then it does look sleazy... but otherwise... it's just sexy, and i don't think there's anything wrong with that.

          i don't see how she wanted to show that bellydance is for women, not men. was she going to make a speech if she won or something?
          maybe she brought bellydancing to the public who didn't know about it yet and showed them it wasn't the same thing as stripping or whatnot... but i don't see the "for women not men" part.

          the 'scantily clad' thing is misplaced, considering a) its a bellydance costume, it's like that by nature almost, and b) seeing what our society considers normal, like the r'n'b girls or whatnot, it's kind of being a hypocrit saying that's ok but bellydancing is 'scantily clad'. but then that's the same kind of double standards that let it be ok to go to the beach wearing a bikini but that pics of girls in lingerie is borderline unacceptable in public..
          • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

            Tue, June 10, 2008 - 8:31 AM
            Of course bellydance is sexy, Kalyani. I do not even buy into that "women for women","bellydance for prenatal exercise only", "we are all Goddesses"- set of beliefs about bellydance, but then-
            bellydance is naturally sexy and does not need to be sexed up by having half-naked male British cabaret- or jazz dancers jumping around on the stage for enhancement during the performance. If it was at least half-naked Arabs in pantalons, I would not mind this at all, but... ; )
            I think, what gets to people about bellydancers in contrast to hip hop, r and b or whatever is that bellydancers do not look like an object for a sexy male fantasy. They look like women who enjoy their own body and their own energy which does have it's power , and this is what scares and embarrasses men who would rather see us as passive objects catering to their fantasies of what sexy women ought to be like. (dependent on them for having fun, of course...)
            On the other hand, the girl in this tv show does make herself into an object and I don't like it.
            • Em
              Em
              offline 21

              Re: "Britains Got Talent"

              Tue, June 10, 2008 - 8:42 AM
              I still am not decided on whether being a sex object is a bad thing or not.
              I've been reading a fascinating book (which all bellydancers should read) called 'Scheherazade goes west' by fatima mernissi - and it is all about how the western man's fantasy of the Harem is SO massively removed from the Arab man's fantasy. It is very interesting how in the west, generally the male fantasy involves a sexually enthusiastic and 'dumb' woman and certainly no mental stimulation (generalising i know), and the arab male fantasy usually involves actually talking to the woman, and that woman has to be intellectually stimulating first and foremost. I totally recommend the book - its written by a moroccan woman who grew up in a harem.
              • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

                Tue, June 10, 2008 - 9:33 AM
                I love that book! Yes, I read it a couple of years ago and it was quite an eye opener! I also love what Mernissi says about Arabic women being allowed to be real women underneath their kaftans and inside their assigned spaces, while we look free on the outside and are totally encroached upon by mental conditioning on how to be and what to think and how to behave to be a "good woman" ( make that "a good slave", with De Beauvoir's words) on the inside.
    • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Tue, June 10, 2008 - 2:18 PM
      Wow! According to that article, this girl's been dancing two years longer than I have. It makes me wonder who her "leading instructors" are and how regularly she's attended classes. It also makes me wonder if she's trying to perform a different style of bellydance than she's been trained in.
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Wed, June 11, 2008 - 4:45 AM
        I think she has been successful because her dancing was mass-compatible. Sexy, drastical, unmistakable, commercial. TV asks for that. Where you need a knowledgeable approach, it automatically becomes "special interest" (=less successful - in a TV-sense).

        Btw. why not have half naked men carry you on stage? I'll think about it for my next performance (hehehe).
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Fri, June 13, 2008 - 5:08 PM
    It takes a lot of nerve for a dancer, any dancer, to follow their dream of being known for their own style. There are the self doubts we heap upon ourselves and if that isn't enough, there are our friends or not so friends to help. Do I think this dancer is fabulous? No. But I do applaud her stage presence in front of a large audience & she looked beautiful in her costume.
    • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Fri, June 13, 2008 - 9:50 PM
      Oh, yes, I know what you mean. Some "friends" definitely love to do something about your self doubts, though it is more often than not the jealous ones with their own self doubts who enjoy dumping on others. Ok, yes, she's got stage presence. However, I do not think, a really good dancer's act needs to be enhanced by skillfully drooling moderators nor by men carrying her on stage, enormous props, entourage and so on, to make a greater impression. ; ) Think of ballet where some dancers wear no more than a simple leotard, dance on a plain stage with a wooden floor and take people's breath away.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Sat, June 14, 2008 - 5:20 AM
    I just can't take this kind of competition seriously. It's not a belly dance competition. Second, the judges aren't educated about this dance. Third, I haven't seen her competition, it could be someone with a metal wash board strapped to their chest playing some obscure song.

    I say go for it! If she wins she could be buying new costumes in Cairo & taking dance lessons from Raqia Hassan.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Sat, June 14, 2008 - 6:11 AM
    Well, that's sad. At least she had the opportunity to improve her skills, perform in front of a large audience, & all the excitement that goes with it. There's also bragging rights of having four buff men as back drop. She can also use the television footage for her web site or tribe page. She's off to a great start.
    • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

      Sat, June 14, 2008 - 11:08 AM
      There is a difference between SEXY and sensual...hopefully belly dance reigns in the latter.
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Sat, June 14, 2008 - 11:30 AM
        Very good point, Jamilla! There is a huge difference between enjoying the flow of your own energy and moving your body to it, and making yourself into an object catering to male fantasies.
      • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

        Sat, June 14, 2008 - 1:58 PM
        I don't see there's anything wrong with "sexy" when named along with "sensual" like: bellydance should be the one, not the other. I think it depends what music you're dancing to, which mood it programs. Sexiness also comes with a person and his/her sex-appeal, in my perception you can't put it on. The person is maybe sexy, her moves are sensual, or they're not really sensual or she is not really sexy.
        What I'd oppose to is a cheap turn-on attitude.
  • Re: "Britains Got Talent"

    Sun, June 15, 2008 - 10:40 PM
    I didn't think she was very good or even cute, but given the circumstances (the nervousness of performing in front of such a large audience, for tv) I'm sure I would have done much worse. On the other hand, she has been dancing waaayyy longer than me, and I definitely agree her dancing is not on par with the time she has supposedly spent learning it.

    My opinions are mixed up. I want to say "props to her" for having the guts. We all wish someone better got in, well, why didn't that happen? Those of you who are better than her and live in the UK: why didn't you do it, then